Curse

JR · Jun 19, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schrale Kerel NL

Its all about yourself. If you get a good feeling by acting sportive, you must do it. Dont think about what other people should do. If you are acting like everyone else, things will never get better...

And as I said earlier; I enjoy the feeling of winning more than that of losing. I care enough about the rating of my guild that I am not about to try and start a revolution of playing honourably at my own expense. Terrible of me I know... but that is just being a competitive player.

At the end of the day it is down to Anet to fix this, and then things really will get better.

Zeldawind · Jun 19, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

That's all very well from the perspective of a low ranked guild, but if you are low ranked then you probably aren't hugely bothered about being competitive anyway.

Honestly i have to disagree whit this. My guild isnt high ranked but thats a other reason (85% of our GvGs this season had a err 7 and weve done 80 this season). But we do care about being competitve but cuz of the uncertainty of the servers towards our players we can't and is really getting on the nerves.

But on topic being sportive is important to us and we hope we get the same reaction from other guilds (which we dont get 9 of the 10 times). But i can understand the ppl who aren't sportive or kill a person whos stuck. But winning that way gives us a bad feeling so we play it like this.

minor · Jun 19, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Funny that rating is such a big concern in this thread i remember another thread where it was discussed. A poster stated that smurf guilds with leet players but very low rank were ruining his guilds ranking, he had been beaten by like 5 in a week for -20 or more each time. Everyone that i remember jumped him and said quit whining the ladder will fix it. The design of an ELO ladder was said to correct any "false wins or losses". So from the standpoint of a top 100 guild playing EVIL and they get a player stuck there are 2 choices.
You leave him stuck and manage to beat them. 1st you will have no braggin rights since everyone who watches will no how you won. 2nd whatever rating you gain from that match will disappear quickly. Either you will win and get less rating over the next several games to end up with same total; or you will lose a game and lose extra rating and end up with same total.
Now if you were nice enough to kill the stuck player you can still win and have mucho braggin rights. IF you lose to them your rating will still end up in the same place within a few games as if you beat them.

This is what i got from the "smurf" thread and some of my own research into how the ladder works. So basically you don't really lose anything by being a good sport no matter where you are on the ladder.

If i am wrong and someone knows the ladder better then explain how im wrong plz.

Farin · Jun 19, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Stuck player related - I just carry a vampiric bow I give to anyone who gets stuck nowadays.

alchohol · Jun 19, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoflame

Wrong. Ethics is a subbranch of philosophy involving the study of moral values. Morality is an ethical knowledge claim.

Haha! Sorry I shouldn't laugh.

Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary

"a system of accepted beliefs which control behaviour, especially such a system based on morals"

i.e "He said he was bound by a scientist's code of ethics"

Go and tell Cambridge University they're wrong professor.

Greedy Gus · Jun 19, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaZoO

Stuck player related - I just carry a vampiric bow I give to anyone who gets stuck nowadays.

How do you manage to trade with people in a gvg?

Stilgar BiH · Jun 20, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

well when i (we) play and oposing team has someone stuck i´ll always kill him, let him res at the base and when he comes back kill him again (and rest of his team). that way you are a winner AND a good sportsman. brilliant isnt it.

Seriously you should always kill a player if he´s stuck (unless its a playoff game in the finals when theres big money involved

). im a big suporter of fair play and sportsmanship. besides u will still gain a slight advantage becouse the guy has to res in the base. and if u win in the end the victory can mean something (besides the really not that important 10-15 rating).

And "i would do it if i was certain all other teams would do it too" argument makes no sense. in the end ill take playing honourably and having lets say 1400 rating (pulled that number out of my ***) over not playing honourably and having a 1420 rating.

err7 or crashes is a diffrent thing becouse you cant balance that (depends too much on the build). its just bad luck and you cant really do anything about it. (well except maybe getting a good pc and a stable connection). take the win/loss and play another match.

sir lockt · Jun 20, 2006, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stilgar BiH

Seriously you should always kill a player if he´s stuck (unless its a playoff game in the finals when theres big money involved

). im a big suporter of fair play and sportsmanship. besides u will still gain a slight advantage becouse the guy has to res in the base. and if u win in the end the victory can mean something (besides the really not that important 10-15 rating).

I agree with you.. but your "unless" is strange: because that 10-15 rating might be the difference in reaching the play-offs. Or getting in the top 1000...or whatever goal you've set. Still I agree with you...

But I must support JR on his points made above... Competative play on a certain level means that you use everything to your advantage... Some called EW "cheaters" because they use FoC in the finals, because it was boring, Still all the 64 skills they took where allowed by the game...

Same is this glitch... although probably not intented (who knows for a new guild hall.. with random stuck-points

)... its there.. and you have to be very very blind or uninterested not to know by now. So either there will come a fix very soon or take your advantage of it... Competative play means also that you prepare for the possibility.

why are elite guilds elite? they can chope with every circumstance they encounter... thats ultimate competative play.

alchohol · Jun 20, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryshnysh

In my guild, we kill if its not going to hinder us. We don't expect other teams to be the same, although we do prefer if they do it to us as well.

"We don't expect other teams to be the same".

This is the sentence that stood out to me.

That to me is real strength of honour. Regardless of how someone else behaves you continue to follow your code of conduct. It sets you apart.

JR · Jun 20, 2006, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchohol

"We don't expect other teams to be the same".

This is the sentence that stood out to me.

That to me is real strength of honour. Regardless of how someone else behaves you continue to follow your code of conduct. It sets you apart.

Does 'honour' really have a place in competitive play? I think not.

Sportsmanship, possibly.

Patrograd · Jun 20, 2006, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchohol

Regardless of how someone else behaves you continue to follow your code of conduct. It sets you apart.

In a competitive environment what sets you apart is winning. This is what impresses the people that you care about impressing, as Elendar from EW said recently

"I know where I stand on this issue, and that's in a gold cape"

JR · Jun 20, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

This is what impresses the people that you care about impressing, as Elendar from EW said recently

"I know where I stand on this issue, and that's in a gold cape"

Rofl.

alchohol · Jun 20, 2006, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Does 'honour' really have a place in competitive play? I think not.

Sportsmanship, possibly.

I believe it does. Look at people who will do anything to gain an edge to win. Steroids and strength enhancing drugs come to mind.

Dishonorable, competitive people say, "It's there...why not use it if you can get away with it." Remember the two Greek Olympic sprinters who were caught red handed. They even faked a motorbike accident to try to escape getting caught. It was a farce. Their trainer had a stash of illegal steroids back at his storehouse. They were a disgrace and embarrassment to their country.

It's all about winning after all isn't it?

Or Maradonna's "hand of God" goal. A win's a win isn't it?

Should honour have a place there? Honour involves honesty, integrity, respect, pride.

I might be wrong btw.

I might see things differently because of my upbringing...and the influences on my life. There was always a strong code of conduct in my family. I was taught to respect people of all ages and races. To live honestly, have integrity. To play on a level playing field, and win with honour.

But not to sacrifice those principles just for the sake of winning.

Schrale Kerel NL · Jun 20, 2006, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

And as I said earlier; I enjoy the feeling of winning more than that of losing. I care enough about the rating of my guild that I am not about to try and start a revolution of playing honourably at my own expense. Terrible of me I know... but that is just being a competitive player.

At the end of the day it is down to Anet to fix this, and then things really will get better.

It probably depends on what place on the ladder you are. And I am not playing to get into the top 16, thats the difference.

Eonwe · Jun 20, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Personally I see nothing wrong with not killing a stuck player.

JR · Jun 20, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchohol

I believe it does. Look at people who will do anything to gain an edge to win. Steroids and strength enhancing drugs come to mind.

Dishonorable, competitive people say, "It's there...why not use it if you can get away with it." Remember the two Greek Olympic sprinters who were caught red handed. They even faked a motorbike accident to try to escape getting caught. It was a farce. Their trainer had a stash of illegal steroids back at his storehouse. They were a disgrace and embarrassment to their country.

I you really want to get into analogies:
If a sprinter trips over his shoe laces in a 100m race, will another runner stop to help him up?

Dragannia · Jun 20, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Players have the ability to kill themselves, as Zui mentioned. If they have the ability to do it themselves, i'm not going to help if they are too stupid to remember.

Play smart: Take a vamp.

Yeah, a vamp is a really good choice when you're a PvP spellcaster and only has 2 weapon slots, and you have better things to take

alchohol · Jun 20, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I you really want to get into analogies:
If a sprinter trips over his shoe laces in a 100m race, will another runner stop to help him up?

Ooh that's a good question.

No, because you've started on a level playing field.
You know that it's possible to trip on your laces, or a hurdle. You make sure your laces are tied before you start.

But, lets say you're about to go on the starting blocks, and you spot that his lace is undone. Do you tell him? In this case yes.

These are the obstacles of the game that everyone in the race faces and has to overcome. The object is to win by fair means...and prepare for all eventualities.

minor · Jun 20, 2006, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Will people please stop saying a vamp will cure it. As i posted before we had a war stuck but the rest of the team needed heal partys which more then canceled the vamp damage. So we either all died or left him stuck.

So is anyone going to say anything about my point on the ELO ladder or is that just being ignored by the people who just don't want to think about it?

JR · Jun 20, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Yeah, a vamp is a really good choice when you're a PvP spellcaster and only has 2 weapon slots, and you have better things to take

Storage...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by minor

Will people please stop saying a vamp will cure it. As i posted before we had a war stuck but the rest of the team needed heal partys which more then canceled the vamp damage. So we either all died or left him stuck.

1) Stop using Heal Party.

2) Move to somewhere out of range of your stuck comrade.

It's not that vamp makes getting stuck no problem, it *is* the only cure for the problem though, short of saccing yourself to death if you have the skills available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by minor

So is anyone going to say anything about my point on the ELO ladder or is that just being ignored by the people who just don't want to think about it?

It's a bit of a mute point; a loss is a loss.